Can the best sales people become the best sales managers?

Comment

Comment by Tim Rohrer on July 24, 2008 at 1:43pm

Count me in the camp that believes that the top-ranked sales people are not the best candidates to become sales managers. I don't believe that the best sales managers were really ever the top-ranked sellers. More than likely, they were good sellers who transitioned to management because their skills and talents were more suited to management and it became obvious. Their own prowess in sales has probably grown in their own minds over time.

The reason why the top-ranked sellers will not typically make great sales managers is simple. Top-ranked sellers are self-centered. This isn't a bad thing - it's one of the talents that makes them effective. They are consumed by their own billing and their own advancement and their own accolades and awards and commissions. They are usually terrible team players and they don't believe they should be team players. The view sales as a individual sport.

Managers show an ability to help others grow by caring about their professional development. The best managers are patient and empathetic.

Top sellers and top managers are two different species and one just can't be the other.

Comment by Brad Trnavsky on July 24, 2008 at 11:02am

Colin, I think you were right on with what I was driving at in my post when you said: "I think to summarize where I am on this is to bring back to Skip’s point about inherent strengths. As he says, they can’t be coached, but they can develop over time as a person’s values, beliefs and experience are developed and enriched by the rich tapestry of life." This was the very same point I was driving at when I said that leadership ability could be coached, as can the ability to coach. The desire can not be taught, but it to can developed over time.

Will on your point, you are right that sales managers can not instill motivation, but they are in fact responsible for facilitating a environment where people will have every opportunity to be successful. The do this through regular coaching, training, and when necessary discipline. Even a team with 10 of the highest potential and extremely talented sales people can under perform if the team morale is allowed to slip. It is the sales managers job to make sure that the morale of the team stays on a even keel. In my opinion this is one of the most difficult things I do on a daily basis.
Recruiting top talent is important, but it is only maybe 20% of team success. The rest of it is making sure those people have an environment in which they have every opportunity to be successful and reduce turnover. A team of "average people" can out perform the superstars if the superstars exist in a negative environment, and the average joes are in a optimally managed environment and are performing well as a team.

Comment by Will on July 24, 2008 at 6:13am

Ian,

I think your comments are outstanding. I agree with just about everything you said.

Brad did a great job of providing an article that would recieve a lot of feedback as well! As bloggers, we can take a lesson from his post.

My biggest concern with sales managers is that they are not responsbile for providing motivation and a "can do" attitude to their sales force. This has to come from within from each salesperson on the team. If a sales manager did nothing but exceptional recruiting, his sales team could hit the goals with little effort from the manager. Can anyone else see this?

Thanks - Will Fultz

www.topsalesblog.com

Comment by Ian Brodie on July 23, 2008 at 2:30pm

One thought to add to the mix - taken from the world of sports really.

There are two reasons why so few top players become top managers (certainly in the sports I know).

One - which appies today but didn't historically - is that they earn so much money as top players they tend to retire or become commentators rather than endure the pain of managing a team.

The other, more serious one, is that the top players who have a natural talent for the sport find it difficult to explain and coach what they do to others who don't have that natural talent. A friend of mine had conversation with Dennis Wise once (averagely talented but tenacious soccer player for US friends) who explained how Ruud Gullit (supremely talented player)struggled when he was the manager at Chelsea. He said at coaching he would try to explain complex manoeuvers that he wanted the players to do with words like "just bend it round him over there when you see the space". But the players he was coaching neither saw the space, nor could they "bend it" to the right place.

I believe the same thing applies to sales. People who are naturally good listeners, who establish rapport easily, etc. often make very good salespeople. But often, because they didn't have to work at developing their skills, they find it difficult to coach others. Even with training in coaching and a desire to coach - they just don't know what it's really like not to be good at the skills, what the first steps are to developing them etc. It all came easily to them.

So while having been a great player, or a top salesperson, is a great advantage in terms of credibility with the sales force and understanding of the issues - in many ways it's better to have "grafted" your way there to know what you need to learn at each stage and to be able to empathise with the person who is working hard to get there.

Having said that, the corollary is that a natural superstar salesperson may be just the right coach for another natural who is on the edge of stardom. They wil lknow what that feels like, and know the little extrasthey needed to learn to go from very, very good to exceptional. What they don't know is how to go from OK to good.

Ian

Comment by Paul McCord on July 23, 2008 at 2:06pm

I disagree somewhat that the numbers are what they're there for. Certainly, reaching established quotas is a part of the job but hardly all of the job. As it stands today that is the job for most sales managers because the way they get paid says it is whether their job description says so or not.

But that myopic view of sales management as bottom-line sales numbers is actually costing companies both sales and profits. We probably all know managers who cut profitability to ridiculous levels to get the sales numbers, or who give away profitable products and services to book a slightly larger, but much smaller profit, sale--sometimes to the extent that its a net loss for the company--but they booked business. We all know sales managers who, as Tibor pointed out, are there as the designated closer--their team hits their numbers and the value of the company's assets--their salespeople--have not been improved.

I believe the job of a sales manager is to improve the company's assets and its position in the marketplace. Sometimes that may actually mean generating a larger net profit and not hitting the sales quota. It always means improving the value of both the human and non-human assets they are charged to manage.

Numbers can be deceiving. But when you're paid on the bottom-line and the message from senior management is to get the numbers, you're incentive is to generate the bottom-line irrespective of how you get there.

Comment by Colin Wilson on July 23, 2008 at 11:45am

Paul,

I have to say I don't know all the sales managers in the world and can only speak from my experience... and I will gladly agree that there are many, many good sales managers around who can manage both the numbers and the team.... if they don't get the best out of the team they are unlikely to get the numbers anyway.

I also don't think I said that I saw an unbridgeable dichotomy between pleasing team members and pleasing senior management... however, there is often a dichotomy especially when things are not going well. Often in sport, you don't come across good team work on the losing side... only the winning side. Same in business.

Now, in your experience have you never seen the spreadsheet jockeys?... have you never come across the managers who prefer to manage data rather than people? They take their data and dissect it every which way and present a mired of different reports... now ask them what actions will they be taking after reading the reports? If there are no clear actions, then the report is meaningless... a waste of time... get them to go and do something useful, like supporting their team to close business.

A sales manager has to get the best out of his team. He also has to make his number... period... it's what they are there for... the organization needs sales and sales managers have been given the objective of achieving the results, so it's no surprise that the focus is on the numbers. Again, in sport, praising a team for playing really well and losing is just not the same as praising a team for playing well and winning.

Comment by Paul McCord on July 23, 2008 at 8:43am

Collin,

Interesting that you seem to see an unbridgeable dichotomy between pleasing the team members and pleasing senior management. I don't see such a dichotomy as inevitable. Currently prevalent, yes, but not inevitable. I think much of that dichotomy is a result of the twisted nature of the role of the sales manager as currently practiced in the actuality of their position. Since their only serious objective from management at this point is to produce numbers and their compensation is based solely or almost exclusively on that, many managers often feel a pull in two opposing directions.

Also, your statement that the skills in sales management seem to diminish with the rise of spreadsheets is interesting. We're talking about managers which by definition means managing, not just coaching or training or herding. Is it not possible to be able to manage and coach/train? And if it is, then do not managers, if they really want to manage as opposed to guess or hope, need information? I've known some exceptional sales managers who could manage and coach, both based on intuition. I've met a tremendous number of sales managers who try to manage and coach based on intuition who have failed miserably.

Comment by Will on July 23, 2008 at 6:47am

How does a great sales manager operate? Here is what I think...

1) Make sures everyone is paid correctly
2) Gives help when it is asked for (this includes mentoring)
3) Recruits good people to fill sales vacancies
4) Holds their sales force accountable
5) They know when to "stay out of the way" (which is most of the time)

Here is what poor sales managers do in my opinion...
1) Forces reps to call on certain accounts and spend time on "poor" prospects
2) Overloads their sales force with "call reports" or other needless paperwork
3) Tries to take veteran salespeople and force a certain sales "method" on them
4) Recruits poor candidates and hold on to them way too long
5) Overloads their sales force with too many meetings
6) Never seeks advice from their salespeople
7) Continues to "force" activities on their sales force that produce "poor" results
8) "Micromanages" all aspects of sales activities

I would argue that recruiting is the most important aspect of being a “great” sales manager; therefore, you don’t need to be a great salesperson to recognize “outstanding” talent

Just my thoughts...

Will Fultz / www.topsalesblog.com

Comment by Colin Wilson on July 22, 2008 at 11:54pm

Hi Brad

I’ve come out of hibernation to add to this debate!... great comments by the way.

Here is my observation on sales managers…

The skills of sales management seem to diminish with the rise in use of spreadsheets.

… and in answer to your question – “Can the best salespeople become the best sales managers?” I think Skip has made a good summary “maybe, but often not” and he has identified why… “you can’t coach inherent strengths”… they are developed over time.

However, in answering the question more fully you need to define what “best” means. Is a sales guy who consistently over performs, but does not forecast, does not follow corporate process and is therefore is a free wheeling maverick better than the sales guy who is steady Eddie… hits his number, but is not a great over achiever, forecasts he is going to hit his number, follows due process, but is a bit boring?

Equally, how do you measure the best sales manager? The sales manager has two opposing masters to please – his team and the corporation. Paul McCord sums up what its going to take to please the corporation, but will that mean they are the “best” sales manager… remember… the skills of sales management seem to diminish with the rise in use of spreadsheets.

I think to summarise where I am on this is to bring back to Skip’s point about inherent strengths. As he says, they can’t be coached, but they can develop over time as a person’s values, beliefs and experience are developed and enriched by the rich tapestry of life. I also believe there is a point in the development of one’s strengths that is an ideal time to become a manager, but go past this point and your ability to earn money out ways the desire and ability to become a sales manager.

Comment by Paul McCord on July 22, 2008 at 6:41pm

Skip, I disagree that whether the majority of sales managers come from the ranks of top producers is critical to the issue because if they do, then you can’t begin to base an answer as to whether being a top producer is a positive or negative—or possibly even which sales skills are indicators--to being a top manager because the primary pool of subjects have a similar background in the sense they were all successful at selling their product or service.

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